Hey, some drama.

[seiberwing]

I think I kind of hate everyone involved in this post. And the linked post. Maybe not korinna, she's kind of cool, but the fact that she's even in this mess is annoying to me.

Does it really fucking matter that we play this grand game of semantics? I hate the wanks that try to form some hierarchy of oppression and make people declare their 'cred' before they're allowed to say anything. Does it matter whether asexuals are systematically oppressed on the basis of asexuality or if their erasure and social strife are caused by misogyny and homophobia? It's still people being dicks to other groups of people and the dicks should stop being dicks and we should work to make the world less dickish to asexuals. Hell knows I've had my string of social troubles and psychological anguish over the fact that a mere squishy kiss downright disgusts me (with a certain specific exception, and only under very specific circumstances) and sex is and never will be an option. If I could get rid of this personal deficiency I'd do it in a heartbeat and my social life might be highly improved for it. But this mess is really not helping.

I love armchair activism as much as the next recreation of an xkcd comic, but hell's balls this is just ridiculous. What are we accomplishing here? Feeling good about ourselves for being right on the internet in thread upon thread upon jesus fucking christ on a cracker not this shit again.

I don't even care who's right here. I just want all of them to shut up.

EDIT: Also, is there some massive filing cabinet somewhere that chronicles every single potentially problematic thing that every single sf_drama member has said? Because with the amount of times I see someone post and then five other people come by and say "Hey, remember that time you said that one thing? You suck!" within minutes, it really makes me wonder.

Comments

[tamerterra.livejournal.com]

Yuck. I remember both rounds of wank that we had on the subject in ontd_feminism - people have finally stopped referencing it, thank goodness.

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

That was the exact reason I left. Every post we had to determine who had the most/least amount of privilege amoung us, like a positive use of the so-called 'race card'. Though I finally left when someone made a huge post decrying slash and then saying we weren't allowed to mention the non-straightciswomen who write it.

[grimmhooke.livejournal.com]

And this is one of the many, many reasons I avoid that community. :/

[momemordrid.livejournal.com]

Man, I hate internet drama. It always gets so intense, and nobody's allowed to have differing opinions, and and... :(

Is this an American thing? Where we're so obsessed with who's the most oppressed?

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's that so much as a problem the internet Social Justice movement's been having. Focusing on words and phrasing and buzzwords rather than what's going on.

[momemordrid.livejournal.com]

Ah. I wonder if that's from armchair activists giving themselves pats on the back for being so... whatever-it-is-they're-going-for (because it certainly doesn't seem to be tolerance or equality) without becoming, y'know, actual activists, or if it's from the internet SJ movement being inundated with trolls.

When I find people on the internet being ignorant in the stupidest way possible, I just assume they're trolls, because thinking that makes me feel better. I have no idea how often it's actually true.

[valentinite.livejournal.com]

Misery poker is a game no one wins. Alas.

I get so fed up with the comments at generally-awesome feminist blogs and stuff going for rounds of mock-the-asexual because it does seem to keep happening. And then it devolves into oppression olympics meta, which generally everyone agrees is a bad thing, but everyone who's still commenting at that point is pissed off enough to be posting without thinking.

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around why it's considered less weird on LJ to be childfree than to be asexual. Is the only purpose of non-reproduction... the ability to have sex without being interrupted by chilluns? WTF, Internet?

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

Easy. There's a larger childfree community here than there is an asexual one. 'Weird' is all about how many people think it's okay.

[kookaburra1701.livejournal.com]

Yeah, while hanging around at sf_drama has made me examine and re-examine my own privilege and I'm better for it...at some point it becomes a huge echo chamber and the originally good thoughts (Trans-women are women) become twisted into grotesque parodies of themselves (women who do not want penis in their sex lives are horrible people.)*

*one example I remember, where most of the SJ-bigwig responses could be, with just a few minor words changed, exchanged verbatim with an MRA site and no one would notice

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

Echo chamber is putting it charitably, that implies they at least agree on something. It's more like a chamber full of loud noisy birds all yelling at each other and pecking at people who wander in.

[wrongly-amused.livejournal.com]

Some forms of social justice are about improving the society as a whole. Others are just about saying, "I win!" (While nobody actually does.)

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

I'm trying so hard to just stay out of the thread, but somehow things took a left turn towards what the flipping hell and I'm being accused of having a racial bias against a certain hostile commenter.

When I didn't know what that person's race was to begin with and nobody was talking about race.

[wrongly-amused.livejournal.com]

I do understand the idea of the inevitable racial bias, in the sense that most Westerners are raised in a culture where modes of behavior are dictated by privileged whites, and deviation from that norm can cause significant backlash. Whether I'd have chosen GGN to make that argument is another subject all together.

[seiberwing.livejournal.com]

Actually, a anonymous informant suggests fortunecooky may be GNN in disguise. Her insult pattern would seem to support this theory.

So it makes sense that she makes no sense.

[wrongly-amused.livejournal.com]

I think the other person you were debating with was voicing it with more clarity. I do understand the idea of "hostility" being used as a means of censure for PoC or minority, though I'm not sure if "intent isn't magical" was really applicable to the situation. SF is always a good reminder of why I refuse to argue minority politics on the Internet anymore.

[wrongly-amused.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I gave this a once-over again this morning and mulled over a bit, so I'm going to add a few things to my last comment -

There is something to be said about the assumption of "white default" on the Internet, or at least the implication that a response would have been worded differently had you known they were non-white. I can see how "I didn't know she was non-white" could come off rubbing the wrong way in certain interpretations, but I think what you were trying to articulate - before you began getting visibly frustrated - that your response focused on her actual response, as independent of her race. I get that, but I also get a little of what they're saying about the weight of language and terminology in response to SJ issues.

The problem boils down to whether or not the use of words like "hostile" and their context within SJ as a means of denigrating POC and minorities can truly be divorced from that association. Can "hostile" be used to describe a manner of tone without bringing to mind all the negative connotations associated with it? I think that's more what they were trying to get at in terms of addressing your "calling out" of GNN and pals in a public post, in a community that is possibly predominantly white and cis. Whether GNN really deserves the reputation wasn't bothering them so much as what they say was a persisting trend in SJ communities regarding treatment of PoC. Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of fortunecooky's "well, clearly you just love being racist" tactic, since I'm of the thinking there's a difference between active racism and subconscious racism - not that both can't be devastating to PoC in different ways - but boiling it down to that label dispels any potential for degree or nuance.

Honestly, that's as far as I can really speak on the subject. :| I don't feel excessively inclined to go further on an issue that's beyond my own experiences as a white woman.

[cowgirlmaxwell.livejournal.com]

Yessss thank God, I've been thinking the same thing for ages but WHOOPS I can't say anything because I'm white and heterosexual! Maybe next time I'm given the option to choose my race/sexuality I'll choose something else so I get more pull in internet arguments, hmm?

I find the 'privilege' thing kinda strange, because what has gone from something with probably good intentions has morphed into grounds to (effectively) discriminate/invalidate people/their points based on race/sexuality/gender and to give some people grounds to look down on others, but opposite to the way it's done in many places IRL- which is incredibly counter-intuitive.

The whole SJ bullshit on LJ the past few years has really gotten to me, even though I've been embroiled in very little of it and have just been a very angry spectator. (I'm also a bit of a pansy for this but it's affected me to the point where I avoid any sort of social justice related things IRL because I have this deep-seated fear that peoples' individual opinions are going to be exactly as psychotically-enforced [if that makes any sense] as they are online.) I've never understood the mentality of writing a thesis on why someone who used the phrase (purely as an example) 'that's so gay' in a comment is a horrible person, instead of, you know, spending the time it took someone to write that becoming involved in real social action that will actually make a difference, if they really did care about the issues they're spewing about on the internet. Yes, the phrase 'that's so gay' is harmful/derogatory and all those things and yes, someone with those attitudes should be encouraged to change them, but the person who uses it isn't likely to give one molecule of shit if you call them out about it, and they're probably going to just continue with the argument you started and it's just going to be a big stupid wankfest that goes nowhere.


Or maybe I've just misinterpreted everything you've said and am talking about something completely different and I'm wrong and should DIAF.

[cowgirlmaxwell.livejournal.com]

EDIT: Also, is there some massive filing cabinet somewhere that chronicles every single potentially problematic thing that every single sf_drama member has said? Because with the amount of times I see someone post and then five other people come by and say "Hey, remember that time you said that one thing? You suck!" within minutes, it really makes me wonder.
This also makes my blood boil. If you're so desperate for points to say when you're arguing with someone that you have to resort to these sorts of politcs-esque tactics, you're obviously not a very good arguer/really floundering for something to say. Really, it's as bad and as childish as calling the other person a poo-poo-head.

Finding the right the right price when you find yourself picking out your first property in Spain.

[(Anonymous)]

It is healthy and well balanced put your signature on a speculator has actually been been consumed coming from a Marbella Home industry for a persons vision to do with abroad real estate investors or sometimes housebuyers. Right now, the property or house encourage present in Marbella to do with the country's knee joints, the values happen to be becoming and thus services will be fretful to promote. It is the main reason to get hazards clients through overseas destinations.

Ronda Property is a good option to live in or just expend ones own annual vacations and from now on can become Europe’s leading favorite desired destination to draw in in foreign lands real-estate dealers to shop for belongings on this website. It is really serving the area around The country some popularly accepted for that great remote islands up and down the whole district. Since the Marbella delivers most establishments with the segments with regards to home security, national infrastructure, viability present in conditions and, luxury rentals marbella (http://randallbruce511.insanejournal.com/266.html), having, it will become to start with option for those who are to see now in their life.

It also gives a a number of performances, excellent businesses, public and private partners, feeling, style, and also passion, year-round. The product sports ths number of greater than 400,500 persons. All around the most people because of 42 diverse regions live now by using relaxation and so calmness.

Mainly, people investing in real estate asset of Marbella for their own own personal quality lifestyle and employ. You can locate the particular properties here for everything tastes or plans from the number starting from €250,Thousand to assist you to €10,Thousand,Thousand for a 1 to 2 mattress room residential home. Because shopping process, become a lot easier together with simple and easy, several thousand characteristics bought in the category related with festive households. Negotiating is not easy when investing in the latest house on Marbella. People are seeking out acquired chemicals could possibly very good craft for the purpose of marbella property (http://www.teksty.resinfo.pl/2011/07/how-marbella-of-spain-is-a-accurate-symbol-of-destiny/) negotiating and complete a person's virtually all reports based on the house. 1 . Go to Furthermore Discounted French Asset Nearby Ground concerning Marbella.